Curse

lethalshot · Jul 17, 2008, 04:41 PM // 16:41

I will risk on the ecto.
Why? I don't know.

I do trade for zkeys but my problem is, whenever I have like 10-20zkeys, I used them...

Rieden Sindefy · Jul 17, 2008, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Black Dye:

Pro: Randon Drop, un-farmable
Pro: Still a large demand
Pro: Is worth more than lock picks
Pro: I don't see any nerf changing the pricing on these

Cons:????

Quaker · Jul 17, 2008, 04:47 PM // 16:47

My 2 cents:

I don't see that it really matters what you use to trade with. You can always convert what you trade to gold and then buy whatever it is you use for "long term" storage. (Personally, I don't see the point in keeping large amounts of gold, unless there is some particular high-end item you want to buy. GW gold is like real gold - you really can't take it with you - not even to GW2.)

For example, if someone wanted to buy something from me using Z-keys, I would accept them and sell them as quickly as possible and then buy ectos (to store until I get enough to buy yet another set of FoW armor.) or lockpicks, or shards, or whatever stacks nicely. I the long run, it is only play money - it doesn't really matter if it fluctuates, in the greater scheme of the universe, and as I said, I see no point in hording it.

Btw, I think Z-keys would be a very bad long term investment. Unlike ectos or any other item available at traders, they have no reference value. Their value is basically based upon the possible value of what you might get out of a Z-chest. What you can get out of a Z-chest (or any other chest), and what people would want, can change without notice. Perma-tonics are one of the items-du-jour that people will pay big bucks for, but it could just as easily be something new tomorrow.

R.Shayne · Jul 17, 2008, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilseabass

on topic, I would say of the 2 choices, ecto or zkeys, zkeys are the safer bet. Since the zaishen title came out, zkeys have been steady at around 5k, which is a fair price. In effect, this puts an actual value on faction; 1 platinum per 1k of balthazar faction. I dont see that changing anytime soon, but I'm no economics guru, so I could be wrong...

I remember when the first week the title was introduced some people bought Z-Keys for 7k ea (I sold six of them at this price, good day). I don't have stack of ectos and if I did I would use them for armor and I sell all my z-keys.

In this game the new wears off of everything and the price comes down. I have seen Black Dye going at 15k, ecto for 20k, and Superior Vigor 100k. Supply and demand, it really is that simple.

Right now Z-keys are going good (4.5k to 5k) because there is a demand. Now eventually someone will max the title and they will stop buying them and may start selling them, then another player will max the title and the will stop buying them, and so on. Eventually the demand related to the title will be gone and the only people buying z-keys will those that like to gamble on the z-chest. Hopefully price will never drop that low since some people will still be working on the title. When will this happen, no telling, my guess would be we will see a steady decline in 4 - 6 months. I don’t foresee an actually price noise dive until GW2 comes out and we have a mass existed of GW1. At that time I am predicting demand for everything from Ecto to Z-keys will not exist. The actually reward for the HoM may affect this too but judging by pass stuff like Pre-order or bonus packs I don’t see ANET giving out anything breath taking as a reward for completing these titles.

Simple answer; Short term Z-Keys (do not horde them), Long Term = Lock Picks, and forget about Ecto the demand will never be there again (I just find it so funny on July 2nd how many people rushed to buy ecto speculating the price would rise).

Snow Bunny · Jul 17, 2008, 04:53 PM // 16:53

I'd say Zkeys if everyone wasn't terrified of using them in trade. Personally, I currently use them in trade sort of as 5k dollar bills.

Not to mention, that even if Ecto stabilised at 3.5, the math for 5 is simply easier than 3.5

But that's me.

imnotyourmother · Jul 17, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Um black dye? is this still an option and if so do people still trade in them? I know that they are a rare drop and I have only had about 5 of them drop for me since I started a long time ago.

I do not nor have I ever had even one ecto but I have had keys, Lots of them. In LA to get a stack of keys is really easy. There are several people even doing it at the 1200 rate. I got banned once for thanking him on this site as a matter of a fact. He does the service for free.

At the Current exchange rate for Black dye at the trader 8k or something like that you could trade 12 Mil gold in one fell swoop. That is twice as much as as ectos

Jetdoc · Jul 17, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Regarding the "nose dive" comments, I don't think anyone would argue that ZKeys are probably not worth their price at the moment when you look at the drops you get (e.g. take a look at the Post Your Zaishen Drops here thread). Their price continues to be high primarily due to (1) "lottery" players; (2) title seekers and (3) their relative "newness" to the game. Eventually, the mathematics related to the chest (along with the continued devaluation of everything save a few isolated items) will catch up to the price, and the price will fall.

We really haven't seen that yet as the ZChest is still relatively new to the game. I've been eerily on target related to previous market fluctuations (especially related to ectos over the past two years), so I think I have a little cause to be wary of ZKeys at the moment.

And no, I don't have any ectos or lockpicks in storage, so I'm not trying to "game" the ZKey market at all (I actually spent all my wealth on Creme Brulees this past festival - hahahaha).

Johny bravo · Jul 17, 2008, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

I'm not playing this game to buy skins that cost 100K+E/zK.
I love PvP and spend all keys myself for the fun of getting something nice.
But I would never buy expensive skins/minipets or other stuff.
I couldn't care less about what would be better to trade.

So why not just write
"+1 12 chars1234"

of course inadvertantly you did make a point. Because people use them for titles and hopes to get items it should keep their volume failrly low compared to ectos which are not as widely used (choas gloves and FoW) even them you are only talking not even a stack.

Low volume does lead to volatility. Also some good points on availability, it is definately easier to pick up a 20 ectos or lockpicks VS 20 Z-keys

By the way is that now the most expensive title in the game?
100,000p thats insane that like
80,000 lockpicks or
28,572 ecto or
666 armbraces @150K ea thats just plain evil

-rightuos- · Jul 17, 2008, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rieden Sindefy

Black Dye:

Pro: Randon Drop, un-farmable
Pro: Still a large demand
Pro: Is worth more than lock picks
Pro: I don't see any nerf changing the pricing on these

Cons:????

they also hold up value during double dye drop rate weekends

Rieden Sindefy · Jul 17, 2008, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by -rightuos-

they also hold up value during double dye drop rate weekends

And actually, as far as I know they increase on double drop weekends just because they're rare enough that people are expecting more people to be selling them

--------->more demand

I'm going to start trading things for cash + x black dyes and see what people say.

Kanyatta · Jul 17, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrath

Why is there potential for a Zkey nose dive? Only a massive increase in supply would do that (or an even more unlikely decrease in demand). Unless Zkeys start dropping from monsters, I don't see that supply jumping suddenly.... So what do you see that I'm missing?

Neither of which is happening, it's just that everyone who's trying to max Zaishen is trying to buy for less. Whenever I'm in GToB, there are always people "WTB ZKeys, 4.5k each", which in turn, causes a lot of people to settle rather than wait another minute for someone who will pay a fair price. If this continues, the price is going to go down just because buyers won't have to pay as much purely because they don't want to.

I must say, I kind of agree with them, I mean, if there are noobs who will sell for 4.5k, why not try to buy from them.

To me, ZKeys are worth 5k apiece, if not, more. I don't sell for less than that. I usually get all my keys sold within 10 minutes anyway.

ReZDoGG · Jul 17, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Ecto's are still easier to farm than Zkeys, so Ecto's can bring in better money for people that play PvE.

The last Nerf for Shadow Form didn't do sh*t to ecto farmers, and prices never went up like people wanted when they cried about nerfing Shadow Form. I am personally pissed off at the Shadow Form nerf, it killed all farming for Sins outside UW. It pretty much forces people into UW to farm ectos because that would be the only way to make money with Assassin's. To me that is a pretty big failure on nerfin the game to try to bring ecto prices back up. If they would have left Shadow Form alone, and only changed Chaos Fields, maybe then people would farm other places than just UW all the time. I was farming alot outside of UW before that nerf using A/E Sliver, and was quite fun to farm areas most other builds can't and get the job done fairly quick. But now... I don't farm at all with Sin's unless I want to farm Ectos, does that make sense? I mean farming outside UW was hard enough to make money and profit from, but now that they killed that, it is going to force Assassin farmers into UW. /fail. I don't think there was any reason at all to nerf Shadow Form, it would have made no difference on ECto prices, unless it actually made people farm other places, then it would of helped ecto prices by not nerfing Shadow Form.

I'd say, TAKE OFF THE 50% DMG REDUCTION FROM SHADOWFORM! AND GIVE US BACK SOME OTHER WAYS TO MAKE MONEY INSTEAD OF ONLY FARMING UW!! I have actually been waitin for them to change it back, but seems they won't be. I have a huge guide on farming with A/E sliver, and now it is pretty much useless cause all the farms for sliver are pretty much nerfed if you use Shadow Form. Sh*tty F*cking deal.

DokkyDok · Jul 17, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

Neither. Price is going to drop on both of these; it is just how the game is played.

Lock picks - 1250g (or 1200 if you have access to a Faction Outpost)

Pro: Easy to get, go to kamadan District 1. Someone is selling Lock picks in large quantities there all the time. (The might even cut a deal if you buy a 100k)
Pro: Price does not vary that much (might find someone selling the odd lock pick for less but not often).
Pro: Can easily be turned back into gold since a constant demand for lock picks.

Cons: ???

Even better option would be to remove the stupid trade limit.

Agreed. Lockpicks > ZKeys/Ectos

Calista Blackblood · Jul 17, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

z keys >ecto

almost constant 4.5-5k
dont require farming if you get them the smart way
lag isnt an issue

ectos
you lag, you die
spend hours farming for 100s then prices plummet to 3.1k

romeus petrus · Jul 17, 2008, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Clearly ectos. Other than the fact they are long time currency, the only way the price can go from where they are now is up. Anet would be insane to buff [Shadow Form], and a nerf is not that unlikely, ie no more downward trend for the ecto prices.

newbie_of_doom · Jul 17, 2008, 10:19 PM // 22:19

I think ectos will increase in price slowly to like 4.5, so zkeys will stil be teh win win win win!
Nobody accepts them tho, while they're so much easier to sell than ectos, to people that is.
Maybe we need a zkey trader!!!!